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    Betrayal of the worse kind

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    Mo
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    Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Mo on Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:27 am

    As some of you, the guild accounts have been hacked recently. All money, equips, bought, and enhanced by Daevor and me had been stolen.

    3 weeks later, the same person hacked Slasher's account, Daevor 60 fighter, and deleted all chars on the account.

    We decided to get everything in the open with OS, in the hope to find the culprit, and to maybe get Slasher's restored. At the risk of being both banned.

    Here is the answer from CSR_Hal :

    Thank you for handling this. I don't think I could. I simply can't handle this kind of betrayal. For someone I trusted, and helped to the best of my ability, to turn against me like this is... unspeakably hard to understand, let alone deal with.

    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Outspark Customer Support <support@outspark.com>
    Date: Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 1:13 AM
    Subject: Account Hacked [Incident: 090525-000040]
    To: slashertheslayer@gmail.com



    Recently you requested personal assistance from our on-line support center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

    We will assume your issue has been resolved if we do not hear from you within 48 hours.

    Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

    To update this question by email, please reply BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW. If you don't write between the lines, we will not receive your message, it will be discarded by the system.

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    Subject
    Account Hacked
    Discussion Thread
    Response (CSR Hal)06/08/2009 04:13 PM
    Dear SlasherTheSlayer,

    Thank you for contacting Outspark Customer Support!

    It's hard to say what is going on here, but it looks like either Nimmie1400 or Nimeroth are responsible. Comparing IP logs to Shevchenko.7 doesn't indicate him at all. It doesn't appear that he is involved. Unfortunately, because account sharing is involved I am not allowed to restore any characters or assets. At this point, we would suggest just letting go of the situation and moving on. Avoiding Nimmie and Nimeroth would be in your best interest at this point. We apologize that we could not help you more directly with this issue.

    Regards,

    CSR Hal
    Customer Support
    www.outspark.com
    Customer (SlasherTheSlayer)06/03/2009 03:05 AM
    Dear CSR Hal

    Thank you for the warning.

    I have checked my e-mail and I see that I changed the password on 29 May. Even if I had a keylogger running on my pc, it would not help a hacker, since I only ever copy-paste passwords.
    It makes no sense to me why this person would access my account 3 days after deleting all the characters on it.

    Are you able to determine if it was one of my ex-admins (Nimmie1400/nimeroth on Bijou) who deleted my chars?

    Perhaps it is time I explained everything, and I apologise in advance for the length of this post.

    On my main (DaevorTheDevoted) I started collecting godly/+9 equips from my 4x levels, and I would often lend my equips I was not using to some guildies.
    When the guild I was in (Dragons_Wrath) got disbanded, I opened my own guild ("The_Round_Table", later moved to the exhibition guild "The Round Table").
    Anyway, it was mostly my closest friends and ex-guildies who joined my guild, and I loaned them of my equips too, and they would give me mats in return (informal system). Basically, the routine was: I lend them my equips, they bring me mats, from which I make scrolls/pots/stones for sale, and from the proceeds I buy more godly/+9 equips so that when they outlevel their current equips, a new set awaits them. And so the cycle continued.

    It was a *very* successful system: I built up a great store of godly/+9 equips, and my guildies were always outfitted with some of the best equips to be found.

    Eventually, however, all the production I had to do simply consumed too much of my time, and I decided to split responsibilities up amongst myself and my admins. I then introduced a "Credit System", where a guildie earns credit for mats/equips donated to the guild, and can use this credit to "rent" equips from the guild.

    I created separate accounts for each production skill, and various admins were responsible for scroll/stone/pot production, as well as comp/decomp. (Account sharing, I know, but there was no other way to make the system work).

    All the equips were also stored on 4 separate accounts (one for each class), and only 2 admins were allowed to access it (nimeroth and Nimmie1400). At the time of creating the Credit System, SlasherTheSlayer was a storage account, and as such I gave the password to Nimmie/nimeroth.

    Anyway, running the system became increasingly difficult (drama after drama), and I eventually had no choice but to abandon the Credit System. I asked for all the guild equips to be returned when the rental period of said equip expires, and paid everyone out for their Credit balance upon returning the equips.

    Everyone returned the equips, except Nimmie1400 and nimeroth. They were unhappy with the abolishment of the Credit System, and, well, basically threw a tantrum. (Note that 90%+ of all the "guild equips" were my personal equips I had acquired before the formal introduction of the Credit System)
    1 day after I had a particularly unpleasant MSN conversation with them (asking for the return of the equips), all the guild accounts (equips, mats, seller accounts) were accessed, and everything of value was taken. These accounts were: [Daevor: I removed the e-mail addresses]

    [Daevor: e-mail addresses removed] and the 4 equips storage accounts had the most valuable items on them that were taken. Between myself and a friend of mine from France, we changed all the passwords (though evidently I did not successfully change Slasher's password).

    Nimmie1400 and nimeroth claim they were hacked (by shevchenko.7) at the same time.

    Then, I had another unpleasant conversation with them: this time they were asking for their "guild money" - i.e. having their Credits paid out. They were refused on the basis that they had not returned all the +9 and/or godly guild equips (which they claim a hacker stole from them). A day later, SlasherTheSlayer's account was accessed, and his chars were deleted. This, then, is the full account of what has happened.

    I know account sharing is against the ToS, but there was no way I could have run my "communal" guild system without it. If you have to punish someone for the account-sharing transgression, please only punish me. Don't punish my admins for a system I implemented.

    I am sorry about all the unnecessary work this is causing you, and really appreciate the effort you are putting in to this.

    Kind regards,
    SlasherTheSlayer aka DaevorTheDevoted
    Response (CSR Hal)06/02/2009 04:05 PM
    Dear SlasherTheSlayer,

    Thank you for contacting Outspark Customer Support!

    My records are showing that this user from the Netherlands is still accessing your account, the latest of which was the 28th. Please change your password at once and check your system for keyloggers and trojans. Please do this at once and let me know when it's done.

    Regards,

    CSR Hal
    Customer Support
    www.outspark.com
    Customer (SlasherTheSlayer)05/29/2009 01:33 AM
    Dear CSR Hal

    Thank you for your reply.

    I believe this is the same person that hacked all my storage accounts, the list of +9 items stolen is here: http://outspark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200352

    And on SlasherTheSlayer, I had these +9 items:
    http://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/13/68/44/58/scree188.jpg
    http://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/13/68/44/58/scree127.jpg
    http://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/13/68/44/58/scree186.jpg

    If those can be traced, then I believe we have found the hacker.

    A little bit of background:
    On my storage accounts, I did do account sharing: I ran a very communal based guild where I acquired equips and loaned it out to guildies for in-game mats. My admins had access to the storage accounts to help administer this program. This is why I did not report the hack on my storage accounts because I broke the ToS by doing account sharing.

    2 of admins from the Netherlands also had their accounts hacked at about the same time my storage accounts were hacked. They have characters on Bijou "Nimmie1400" and "nimeroth" (and happen to be bf&gf irl).
    They claim (unsubstantiated) that they were hacked by "shevchenko.7", who happens to be the irl ex-boyfriend of "Nimmie1400".

    My guess is that either Nimmie1400/nimeroth or shevchenko (all from the Netherlands) deleted my character and stole my equips. If you are able to trace the equips, however, then I believe we would have found the guilty party.
    Response (CSR Hal)05/28/2009 05:54 PM
    Dear SlasherTheSlayer,

    Thank you for contacting Outspark Customer Support!

    Your characters were deleted by someone from Netherlands. There are log entries from February by this person. What can you tell me about this information?

    Regards,

    CSR Hal
    Customer Support
    www.outspark.com
    Customer (SlasherTheSlayer)05/25/2009 09:09 AM
    Hi

    A friend of mine contacted me (at about 5:15pm UTC-2 timezone, 25 may 2009) on MSN saying that I had just deleted her from my friends list, yet I wasn't logged on.

    I immediately logged on and discovered that all my characters had been deleted on this account. I presume a hacker had gotten into my account and deleted all my characters at the character select screen.

    Attached in the screenshot she sent me depicting the deletion from the friends list.

    Please help.
    Auto-Response05/25/2009 09:09 AM
    We have already displayed suggested solutions
    Question Reference #090525-000040















    Product Level 1: Fiesta Online
    Category Level 1: Account Issues
    Category Level 2: Hacked account
    Date Created: 05/25/2009 09:09 AM
    Last Updated: 06/08/2009 04:13 PM
    Status: Waiting
    Server: Bijou
    Your Character Name: SlasherTheSlayer
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    Asian4Life

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Asian4Life on Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:13 am

    Oh dear...Iv been hacked also...
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    Holly

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Holly on Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:50 pm


    Omg o_o
    o_o.....
    ....
    (I still have your wing of Casha Mo ._. and your +9 armors ._. I wasnt told to give them back. SORRY. XD)
    o_o.... Wow. ._.
    Didnt see THAT one coming..._.
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    Mo
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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Mo on Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:54 pm

    Oh God, you have my blue ?

    THANK GOD Q.Q

    *crushes Holly in a bear hug*

    My blue axe offered by my master, UAELonely Q.Q
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    Brett

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Brett on Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:01 pm

    Hmm... now THAT'S a tragic situation there...
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    Holly

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Holly on Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:12 pm


    Mo...can't breathe...T_T
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    Mo
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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Mo on Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:07 am

    *releases Holly*

    sowwie xD


    .___.

    Daevor
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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Daevor on Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:49 am

    It's taken me a while figure out how to react to all this. At first I was very confused, then hurt, then upset, then plain devastated. Now... I think I'm just terribly disappointed. I have helped all my guildies, some more than others, and few more than the nims. To be thanked for my generosity like this is simply indescribable.

    Happy Holly, I feel a bit better knowing some of Honoured Little One's godly/+9 equips are safe. Thank you.


    _________________
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    Holly

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Holly on Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:59 am



    I just had her casha and her shirt....T_T
    But, thats better than nothing at all. I kinda wish I'd just kept the equips now. T___T
    BUT THAT WOULD'VE BEEN WRONG! O_O
    -cough-
    Mo if and when you want your shirt and Casha back lemme know. XD
    I'll keep it safe. O_O
    (Since I'm never on *_*!!!)

    Oh yah, SMILEY FACE. XD
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    Asian4Life

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Asian4Life on Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:01 pm

    XD (\(0.0)/)
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    nimmie1400

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by nimmie1400 on Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:12 pm

    as i said before i didn't do anything and nime didn't do it as wel.
    how many times do i have to tell u guys it was not us.
    i feel so sad that u all point at me and nime, but thanks for nothing then
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    LyZa

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by LyZa on Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:16 pm

    Oh my o.o
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    LyZa

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by LyZa on Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:32 pm

    Let me reinstall fiesta I also wanna help Q.Q!!

    *buzz @ Holly*
    WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?
    Grrrrrr >_>the fat guy was so desperate without you xDD

    anyways @ topic!~

    My Theory.
    I think there are 10-20% of people from Netherlands playing Fiesta online.
    And mommy nim and daddy nim is one of the 10-20%
    Since it is said that they got hacked a LOOOONNNGGGG time ago before mommy Nimmie1400
    It's possible that they will get hacked again right? o.o
    But this time a different person o_o

    (Off topic for the moment)
    The PC virus is like the same as Human virus well not all.
    When this certain kind of virus attack ur PC I think the person owning it will pgrade it's firewall
    just like the body ._.!

    @ topic
    Maybe It's possible that they got hacked again but let's not put the blame 1st ._.!
    Everything has a flaud O.O
    well even me -.-!
    Buttt...It's still possible that mommy and daddy nim did it..
    We don't know.
    I'm not putting the blame on anyone. Just giving the benefit of the doubt ._.!!
    <3 you guys
    imma talk to Hal xD
    He's my fave csr ahahah
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    LyZa

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by LyZa on Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:33 pm

    btw mew mew skill has the Robo earring.. I hope that helps xDD
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    Asian4Life

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Asian4Life on Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:47 pm

    Sad I hate to blame nim n nim @_@ But Facts look like facts =/
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    Asian4Life

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Asian4Life on Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:53 pm

    AND IM NOT A FAT GUY D:<
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    Brett

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Brett on Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:58 pm

    nimmie1400 wrote:as i said before i didn't do anything and nime didn't do it as wel.
    how many times do i have to tell u guys it was not us.
    i feel so sad that u all point at me and nime, but thanks for nothing then
    Now those are the kind of words that make me believe that you had something to do with all of this.
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    nimmie1400

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by nimmie1400 on Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:42 pm

    Thanks Brett for not trusting us either, but this is tghe last i said about it, fiesta is over for me so all think what u want,
    Thanks Lyza for not blaming us, we luv u to.
    bye for ever
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    Mo
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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Mo on Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:37 am

    I'll explain a little more for those who have no idea why we are sure that it's the Nims that did it.

    IP is the DNA of the internet connexion of a person. You can't hide it, and OS records every IP connecting to every account.

    Those are logs. With the ID of the account, OS can say who exactly accessed there and with the IP if the account, from where exactly.

    We didn't accuse outright the Nims. As you can see the first mail send to Hal is from late May, about 2 weeks ago, after the hack and deletion of Slasher, the 25th of May.


    Your characters were deleted by someone from Netherlands. There are log entries from February by this person.

    In February, the Nims were already admins, and had access to every guild account, like all admins. They did confirm that they had accessed Slasher's account previously to the hack.
    Slasher's account was shared by only 3 persons : Daevor, the Nims, and me.

    At first, the Nims accused shevchenko.7, saying that he hacked them one time already, and that he most likely did it again. That's why, we were still trusting them at that time, we decided to ask Hal, and gave all the information we had on the case, to help him in his search.

    Note that account sharing is perma ban, at this point Daevor was putting all his, choca and mine, as well as all the guild storage and productions accounts in jeopardy, but we felt that it was needed.
    It's hard to say what is going on here, but it looks like either Nimmie1400 or Nimeroth are responsible. Comparing IP logs to Shevchenko.7 doesn't indicate him at all.
    Like Hal said, he compared IP logs to Slasher's account, and it wasn't Shevchenko.7. But the Nims IPs. He can't pinpoint the right account, but the connexion, and as the Nims share the same, he can just say that it's their IP.

    Now, you might say, it could have been a hacker.

    Yeah, right.

    Imagine the case a few minutes. It was the Nims IP. If it really wasn't them, then their computers were directly used for the hack. We know that it's a Fiesta player that hacked all the accounts, because only valuable equips were taken (godlies, +9, T3/T4 stones, gold)

    Either it's a third person, breaking into the Nims house, logging on the accounts, stealing everything pixelated, then leaving quietly without them knowing.

    Or, a hacker took control of their machine (know that it might seems easy in the movies, but it's like, uh, impossible in real life), and really, if we push the dream further, let's say a hacker DID introduce on their computer, what are the chances that he'll just what ? Steal pixel stuff ? Wth ? You can take control of a computer and you don't touch the bank accounts ?

    The Nims said that after the 1rst hack they increased their security system, thus removing that 2nd possibilitie.

    I would really want to trust them when they say it's not them, but let's face it, there is no possibilities than it's not, the facts are facts.

    History of the hacking :

    The first hack happened when I was away, on the week-end of the 10th May. Few people knew that. And it was after we decided to close the equips system, and after asking the Nims to give back their borrowed equips, that they refused to, and Nimmie threw a tanthrum at Daevor.
    At that time, Slasher's account remained untouched. For some odd reason. Because the "hacker" had already its access.

    The 2nd hack happened on the 25th of May, the day after Daevor refused the Nims the access to the productions accounts. As they had been "hacked" once, we thought it would be better to not push our luck, and proposed to take their mats and produce for them, but wouldn't give the new passwords of the producing accounts. They also asked for the credit money, but as we had been "hacked", all our money (guild, Daevor's, mine) had been stolen. We had only the equips on the back of our chars left. Nothing more.

    Now, everyone know everything, and can decide for themself.

    We didn't outright accuse, and wouldn't if we didn't have real proof backing up said accusation.

    Daevor
    Admin

    Number of posts : 492
    Age : 38
    Location : Alberton, Gauteng, South Africa
    Registration date : 2008-12-03

    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Daevor on Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:46 am

    I can confirm everything Honoured Little One said. Specifically, I would like to confirm:

    1. A day or two before the first hack, I had an MSN convo with Nimmie where I asked for the equips back (more like insisted they give them back, since we'd been asking a long time already). Nimmie was extremely upset about this and was basically throwing a tantrum.

    2. 1 day before the 2nd hack (deletion of Slasher), I had an in-game convo with nimeroth. I advised him to first increase his security before he starts to play again, or the hacker will just get him again (I still believed they were innocent). He responded that he had already done that and his connection was secure.

    3. In the same convo nimeroth asked for the both their guild money (paying out their credits), and access to the producer accounts. For the former, I denied his request since you all know no money was paid out to any guildie until the guildie returned all the guild equips they had (and as they claim they were hacked, they obviously hadn't returned any of the guild equips). For the latter (access to producer accounts), Honoured Little One already explained why we refused access.

    4. Most interestly of all, I had other conversation with nimeroth (on MSN), all "pleasant" small-talk. The two times we were hacked we both a day or two just after the only two unpleasant conversations I had with them.

    In conclusion, the evidence (specifically the IP address logs) is undeniable proof that one of the nims deleted Slasher. They can deny it all they want, but calling an orange a pear doesn't make it so.


    _________________
    ~Daevor, The Devoted
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    LyZa

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by LyZa on Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:42 am

    Oh my (again) o.o
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    MakeMyDay

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by MakeMyDay on Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:06 am

    I am emotionally paralyzed. I don't know what to say, I don't know what to think about it. I don't WANT to believe. I don't want to... but the text Hal wrote is pretty harsh to read.

    I am shocked, and keep thinking if there is some mistake... I don't want to point anyone, I don't want to blame. But who ever is behind this, "hopefully" can live with this thing, causing so much harm. I could not. I would hate my self the rest of my life. Deleting Slasher was just unforgivable.Stealing equipments was unforgivable too. Mo and Daevor used lots of real cash enhancing those, lots of time collecting em... ingame money is one thing, real life money is another... I feel devastated.

    I love you all, we can get through this together. With one way, or another.

    Peace and Love!
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    Asian4Life

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Asian4Life on Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:37 pm

    Well iv done some researching and found that it is possible to "hack" a computer..All you need is the Ip and you can control it.Completely...Under this circumstance Nim and Nim might not be lying...idk..But what I know for sure is it is possible to take control of a computer thought our own...And as for what you said Mo why not hack a bank..I highly doubt many people can hack into a banks secuirty system and it wouldbe illegal and if caught can possibly go to jail.So I say its possible that nim and nim were telling the truth even a "slight" chance
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    Mo
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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Mo on Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:31 am

    Hmmm

    I guess I wasn't clear enough about hacking possibilities.

    There is 2 ways to hack someone :

    - first option, it to physically take control of the computer, via the internet, by having the IP. Now, there are some softtwares who scan IPs and try to access. But let me tell you, my brother has been having hacking lessons, to update his security system. He couldn't even hack my own computer, even after I gave him my IP and let down my firewall to let him access. To sumarize : it's not as easy as Google let it seem.
    Then, if we really say that a hacker did hack their computer, just the fact to do that is illegal. Then, we have the problems of Fiesta passwords and emails (to access the accounts). Those aren't kept in memory by the computer. So, even if the computer was taken over, he still wouldn't have the accesses.
    Edit : and what are the odds, that a hacker that is successefully hacking the Nims' comps is a Fiesta player too ?

    - second option, is via a keylogger. A keylogger is a software that is send to a person, via MSN or email, and is sneakily installed on a computer. Once it's there, it sends automatically to the culprit, everything that is typed on the computer's keyboard. It's the only way to get passwords and emails (and others things as you can guess). But then, if a guy had installed that on the Nims computers, their computers were useless to access Fiesta, as he had already all the accesses.

    We aren't in a movie, a hacker won't waste his time on fucking pixelated stuff, trust me, they have better things to do.

    I know players that have hacked others already. I know people that have been hacked too. In each and every case, it was because the accounts were shared and someone leaked the informations. No real hacking.


    I'm tired of all this shit.

    Daevor
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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

    Post by Daevor on Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:36 am

    Asian4Life wrote:Well iv done some researching and found that it is possible to "hack" a computer..All you need is the Ip and you can control it.Completely...Under this circumstance Nim and Nim might not be lying...idk..But what I know for sure is it is possible to take control of a computer thought our own...And as for what you said Mo why not hack a bank..I highly doubt many people can hack into a banks secuirty system and it wouldbe illegal and if caught can possibly go to jail.So I say its possible that nim and nim were telling the truth even a "slight" chance

    LOL, we're not living in a movie!

    Okay, back to reality. The best a hacker could have done is to get the Fiesta passwords via an installed key-logger (as Honoured Little One has explained). The hacker cannot, however, steal and re-use their IP address. If you cannot understand this, then you need to do a lttle research on what an IP address is and how it works. Note that people accessing illegal content on the internet are tracked down via IP address alone.

    Are you beginning to understand the implication of IP address uniquely identifying an internet access point? I don't have the time to go through all the scenarios you may raise as possibilities and demonstrate how those scenarios are, in fact, not possible. All I can say is that IP addresses do not lie (especially when nimeroth confirmed that their connection was secure the day before Slasher was deleted). And both hacks coming just after the only 2 unpleasant conversations I had with them is simply a bit too coincidental. Hal is not stupid, nor biased (what has he to gain from this?): he would not implicate the nims if he didn't have evidence supporting his accusation.

    You guys are free to voice your own opinions. All I can say, once again, is that the evidence is overwhelming.


    _________________
    ~Daevor, The Devoted

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    Re: Betrayal of the worse kind

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